104276-why-do-we-have-unintended-new-bugs-and-issues-after-every-patch-page-2
Page 1, Page 2 Content No offense, being a software engineer and technology professional for 20 years, you must be a complete gem to work with. It's true, this is Carbine's first rodeo and they probably are improving and refining their development process. But I tell you what, I won't make assumptions about the complexity of your codebase you manage or size and talent of your team or assume your customers think you are God's gift to programming and never have any issue with the code you produce. | |} ---- Chua hope Humans understand how silly look now trying to attack game with arguments. Unless working in said industry, all arguments bring up invalid. And before attacking Chua, yes Chua work in gaming industry. | |} ---- I just had to log in and echo this post, because quite honestly, the patches are doing a good job of undermining my experience. I have played my fair share of different MMO's, including WoW in the early days, but this has to be the worst of the lot for me. I expect bugs, i can tolerate bugs, but not to this magnitude. This combined with other issues the game has, and it makes you wonder what to expect next. Wildstar was supposed to last a long, long time for me before Camelot Unchained. Credd is pretty much the sole reason i'm still playing, because they made that option available. | |} ---- We're still human, we do make mistakes and release a software with bugs. This is the point I'm trying to make but it seems it's the point everyone's missing. Let me quote my original post: Narrow it down: Now we're getting to the best part of it! Keyword here is "software upgrade". I did not say we release flawless software with no bugs and everything works perfect. I said, we never revert or break a previously working feature with a patch that is focused on something else. I sincerely hope I made myself clear, because looks like it's really hard for some people to understand that specific sentence. | |} ---- This. I'm just a consumer of software, but I've been one for quite a while. And I can't say I remember any software rebreaking things with this frequency. How does this even happen? Copypasting of outdated code? | |} ---- Welcome to the Wildstar forums! A well-considered post that even veers towards "there seem to be fundamental problems" can be dismissed and ignored to chew on one poorly chosen or even poorly understood word in it. I'm also personally more concerned with the ways in which the patch notes are incomplete or even incorrect. It sort of leaves one at "...what QA process exactly? Did anybody look at this before it went out the door? At all?" | |} ---- I'm not so sure about that. If a release is done directly from a branch I think it's being done incorrectly. Even when as the resident Chua says, Releases are maintained in their own fork to maintain a point-in-time version of what's currently in the production environment (and can be hotfixed against), those releases should always be generated from the mainline. I almost feel like I should draw a picture for the laymen out there (not directed at you) but here goes: Let's say I branch the main to start work on "FeatureA". At the same time, you branch the main to create "FeatureB". We both work away on our stuff, test it thoroughly, and it's rock solid. I release from my branch, and then two weeks later you release from yours... all my work would disappear. If we don't merge into the main, you'd have to at the very least merge your branch with mine. With only two branches, that could work - but with 7? Maybe that *is* what they're doing... it would kind of explain the crazy regressions and wierd out-of-nowhere "this totally unrelated thing got broken somehow due to a dependency" stuff that seems to happen. | |} ---- Many branching strategies out there. All have benefits and downsides. Come down to situations and preference. | |} ---- I understand that - but most of the branching strategies differ in things like how many branches, and the focus of the branches (branch by feature, branch by department, branch by timeline, etc). If at some point the branches don't come together, I'm not sure how you would maintain something of the size of Wildstar. You'd have to make every change in every branch every time you made it. At that point it's really analogous to forking rather than branching. Everyone would have their own copy of the source code and they're just working away. If another team makes a change in their version they copy and paste it into an email for you or something and say "hey include this in Spellsplinger.c" ? | |} ---- ---- Pick an adjective you'd use for the past two Drops. That's how. | |} ---- They're -probably, should- merging their feature branches on a "version" branch and that version branch rebases from production branch frequently and developers also should rebase their feature branches to "version" branch frequently too to avoid missing implemented features. I don't see a problem with working more than 1 development branch, as long as they all have their own QA phase, and then merge into main version branch which then merges into staging and release eventually. Otherwise it would nearly be impossible to track different changes of different branches when staging. | |} ---- Yes. They copy and paste old code which is why stuff that got fixed gets un-fixed. (i'd like your post but im out of power today, because even positivity is time-gated in Wildstar) *edit* It's also why weird shit like Closed Beta Aurin faces return after Drop 2 on live. WTH. lol | |} ---- Exactly. Perhaps you're saying it better than I am. :) My ultimate point was that eventually it all comes together and a release happens from the merged codebase. (Not the individual branches) So while you can QA the branches while you do them (that would be awesome) you'd still have to QA the merged code that was the release candidate. EDIT: So, in the end, as long as your testing the merged code for release the number of branches you've got in the air to produce that final code would be irrelevant. | |} ---- ---- What people are trying to understand is, How does introducing a new battleground suddenly make Chua fatter and all Aurin Males mouth breathers? Because THAT's what happened. :lol: | |} ---- Because Chua run too fast from bomb blast, so needed slow down. Aurin cause true nature revealed now. | |} ---- ---- Actually, I can refer you to the best example I have. The Hot Coffee Mod from GTA San Andreas. People wondered WTF that was. Essentially, with a quick modification to the game client, you essentially unlocked an entire minigame where you would bang your girlfriend. The reason it could be done was because the code was actually left in the game, even though they didn't want to use it. It would have been harder to extract than leave, so they just bricked off in front of it and figured it wouldn't come up. It happens all the time. You just didn't used to see when someone dropped a clipping plane in front of a place they didn't want you to go anymore. It could have been an original body build for Chua or an animation for Aurin that accidentally got switched in a reference log that weren't supposed to be. To fix it, Carbine has to go back through the codes and see where exactly they used a six instead of a nine in the tagline. | |} ---- ---- That's the entire point. Virtue's post implies that they have 6 "mainlines". It explains the mess we see in the end. As I imaging, they have 6 code bases, which share patches in some obscure way, but each generates its own binaries. And those binaries replace each other on the live servers. Normally you would have a single "mainline". And an old fork of that mainline, which contains "stable" version and receives only explicitly backported fixes. (It's possible to have multiple stable versions, but that's irrelevant for MMO games.) Most problems we see with WS updates just wouldn't make sense in such model. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- If you'd be happy to trundle your irrelevant threadcrapping deflection elsewhere, adults are talking about QA process and overly layered development processes. | |} ---- Cause sane human only work 8-9h a day and then go home. Chua not spend 14h at work. Chua however will not post payslip, as is violation of contract and not in mood to lose job for "proving point". | |} ---- ---- ---- Cripplingly, painfully so. His present employment has really no bearing on an understanding of the process of software development. You want to make trouble and talk about something else. Go. | |} ---- Chua is NOT posting personal documents on Internet. Not for random on Internet. | |} ---- ---- flipping burgers... | |} ---- ---- works at walmart. | |} ---- People reported many, many of the bugs on the PTR. They still made it through. | |} ---- And proceeded to ignore feedback, leave a bunch of stuff on the PTR they said made it to live, and introduced whole other sets of bugs not encountered in exactly the same circumstances on PTR compared to live. | |} ---- Haha right because those jobs pay so well you can afford working only a few hours a week. And then pay for a rig that runs Wildstar and a subscription. Did you even think this through beyond "I want to insult people by questioning their social standing"? :rolleyes: | |} ---- Chua was hoping human was smart enough to make conclusion.... Now Chua prepared screenshot for nothing... | |} ---- ---- If Chua smack you around with screenshot and credentials, will Human openly admit was a cupcake, and make public apology to Carbine and users here? | |} ---- ---- Actually I'm dying to know where you work now. You first. | |} ---- ---- you cant afford working only a few hours a week because THINGS HAVE TO GET DONE no matter how much you make.Kid you just proved you are flipping those burgers. | |} ---- ---- ill openly appollogize to any person that proves their credentials...i wont appollogize to the rest of the kids here who obviously dont know shit | |} ---- Because look how it completely derailed the conversation into feeding the troll! Look at all the attention he's getting being a complete shit! | |} ---- well then, you better prepare *cupcake* speech.. | |} ---- Chua expect apology now. | |} ---- because they are using it as a "tool" to say hey i know what im talking about!. | |} ---- lol i see where you said what you supposedly did..i can add that to my resume too...hell you can add whatever you want to your resume...if you are expecting an appollogy for some crap you "claimed" you did im sorry not goona happen. " I sucessfully flew to the moon and planted a crop of corn there" see what i did there?...please...lol. | |} ---- ---- Okay, Thanks for proving what a a cupcake you are. It's pretty obvious you have no clue how the real world works, or how even LinkedIN works. I think we can all agree now that you're just out here trolling now, and ignoring obious facts thrown into your face. Keep trying while the grown ups add you to ignore now and go back to the discussion at hand. | |} ---- You didn't answer us - why not post your credentials first? | |} ---- ---- GAU doesn't give out pay stubs? | |} ---- i never CLAIMED any *cupcake*ing credentials... | |} ---- ill take fries with that... | |} ---- | |} ---- Aight, you're obviously too busy to even properly type anymore, so I'll leave you to your important stuff. :) | |} ---- linked IN....lol ok bro supersize that for me would you | |} ---- Chua never seen soo much stupid before........ | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- there´s not enough facepalms on the world to describe so much stupid concetrated into one person... >mfw if you dont know what LinkedIN is about then you have no right to complain about something you have no idea about | |} ---- | |} ---- ---- Depends on which side of the "Wildstar is fine why are you whining" and "You guys are really wrecking this great thing you made" discussion they're on, I find. He's derailing an issue thread. That's pretty strong shielding. | |} ---- I find that ignore works the first time every time. | |} ---- Doesn't convince others to stop following their derailments like a Pied Piper, though. | |} ---- Yep. I officially give up on this discussion for now. Wonder how many pages will be filled with more babbling when I get back? | |} ---- thats true, but canno treally stop people from falling to trollbait. its why they keep trolling. get their "15 minutes" | |} ---- It gets even more obvious when the post is not in either category. Well, at least we can keep a civilized discussion going if we ignore trolling attempts :) | |} ---- ---- Or just shuffling seven development branches together like a deck of cards and hoping they don't layer themselves into pointlessness. | |} ---- Except all of these issues were reported far ahead of time. There's no excuse. | |} ---- It was "we can't figure all of this out in time but we gotta drop the patch now (to keep up with our projected content schedule/reel in people who might resub if it's before end of the month, etc.)". That's the only explanation. Of course it's still not an excuse though. For the returning bugs I still don't even have an explanation apart from the suggested copypasting of old code. | |} ---- Oh thanks. I didn't know that. So, basically, they just ignored the free testing on the PTR. That's bad. | |} ---- ---- and while I dont entirely disagree with you, sometimes when you are in the system all you are fixating on are the problems. Blizzard went through the same things in the early days of WoW. the forums were really not a lot different. complaints that blizz had no clue what they were doing, that they were going to lose all their subs, that other games were better. difference is, they had an IP with history but really, SSDG | |} ---- Finaly someone who gets it. | |} ---- I had to laugh the people working on this game have been working on it of over 2 years if I am right "they know there code". They also have a test server so there paid testers and then the community should have picked up on the bugs. Perhaps they should read the forums and react on bugs players post. This is a long shot don't mix bug fix's with new content. WS has 2 set days a week to patch and that's awesome in my mind you would use those 2 days Tuesday patch X race (after testing) if all is fine patch Y race on Thursday. what they did this week was just push a huge patch to try to fix as many as possible in 1 hit and that caused conflicting code i.e made more problems. The wildstar team needs in my mind to be taking steps not jumps. | |} ---- ---- ----